My Blog List

Sunday, April 3, 2011

location location location, position of chromosomes, gene expression, and bad design?

garage DNA ..what a mess?
The amazing organization of the eukaryotic nucleus was shown in a fascinating article in Scientific American.  It turns out that chromosomes occupy certain locations in the nucleus.  Some chromosomes reside at the periphery of the nucleus and others near the middle.  Some chromosomes also appear to favor being next to "buddy" chromosomes.  It is not yet totally understood why chromosome position is important, except that it is very crucial to cell function.  One nucleoskeletal protein lamin, helps tether the chromosomes in place.  Mutations in lamin are responsible for all sorts of disease conditions, including progeria, or premature aging.


Also it appears that the chromosomes near the nuclear periphery are more quiescent than chromosomes near the center.  The chromosomes in the center are more involved in gene expression.  No one knows how the chromosomes get directed toward a specific place in the nucleus.  I find it quite amazing that this overall structure can be maintained because there is so much DNA in the nucleus.  Remember in its stretched out form DNA is  hundreds of thousands of times longer than the nucleus diameter.   I have trouble just keeping a few power cords untangled in the garage.  Just imagine my garage packed full of tightly wound-up and partially wound-up power cords  and that I need to find one cord in particular to unwind and use and I must do this while literally swimming through a tangled maize of power cords.  I think you would suffer from "power cord" entrapment before you could even reach the power cord you need. 


1 Investigate progeria and hypothesize how nuclear organization could lead to this syndrome and other disease states.  Many diseases are related to chromosome structure and function including cancer, does this support the notion of bad design?....i.e., does the fact that some aspects of cell structure are more involved in promoting disease states show that a designer of the cell or life is unlikely ?




2 Describe how nuclear organization and chromosome location could evolve during the evolution of the nucleus from a prokaryote ancestor? What are some of hurdles that evolution would have to overcome?

43 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  2. 2). One of the biggest problems that evolution would have to hurdle is how to organize the numerous strands of linear chromosomes into their specified territories. Prokaryotes generally only have one chromosome that is circular and without a nuclear membrane. It seems that there are so many problems and diseases that occur if the chromosomes are not in the right place or if some component inside of the nucleus is missing such as the case of the progeria disease. Thus, if the prokaryote were to evolve and progress toward the eukaryote, it would develop more chromosomes and thus would need to be able to organize it and develop other proteins such as laminin and histones to help to organize the chromosomes. The only problem is that if the Prokaryote were to not be able to organize its growing number of chromosomes, it would develop some kind of disease and die, thus taking an almost infinite amount of time to develop into the eukaryote cell.

    ReplyDelete
  3. 1). According to the Progeria Research Foundation (http://www.progeriaresearch.org/about_progeria.html), “Hutchinson-Gilford Progeria Syndrome ("Progeria", or "HGPS") is a rare, fatal genetic condition characterized by an appearance of accelerated aging in children. Its name is derived from the Greek and means "prematurely old." While there are different forms of Progeria*, the classic type is Hutchinson-Gilford Progeria Syndrome, which was named after the doctors who first described it in England; in 1886 by Dr. Jonathan Hutchinson and in 1897 by Dr. Hastings Gilford. HGPS is caused by a mutation in the gene called LMNA (pronounced, lamin - a). The LMNA gene produces the Lamin A protein, which is the structural scaffolding that holds the nucleus of a cell together. Researchers now believe that the defective Lamin A protein makes the nucleus unstable. That cellular instability appears to lead to the process of premature aging in Progeria.

    Although they are born looking healthy, children with Progeria begin to display many characteristics of accelerated aging at around 18-24 months of age. Progeria signs include growth failure, loss of body fat and hair, aged-looking skin, stiffness of joints, hip dislocation, generalized atherosclerosis, cardiovascular (heart) disease and stroke. The children have a remarkably similar appearance, despite differing ethnic background.Children with Progeria die of atherosclerosis (heart disease) at an average age of thirteen years (with a range of about 8 - 21 years).”

    ReplyDelete
  4. Regarding a hypothesis on how nuclear organization could lead to Progeria as well as other disease states, I think that when there is a defect in the location of the chromosome, the laminin and other proteins that locate the specific chromosome would be unable to locate the defective chromosome, thus causing problems in the transcription and eventually the translation of RNA and DNA.
    Although it does seem that there are lots and lots diseases associated with the malfunction of the chromosomal territories, it also goes to show that we are very complex and therefore have a designer. In the Scientific American Article that Dr. Francis posted, another Dr. commented saying, “To propose that nuclear positioning is "self-organizing" may be a valid investigational "devil's advocate" stance to take but this rational is not integral with the authors depth of knowledge in biochemical processes. Can "meandering loops" of chromatin be "lucky"? Our current understanding of epigenetics and well-conducted chemical processes of the plasma membrane, the nuclear membrane, the cytoskeletal (spec. microtubules role in organelle movement) transporting processes as well as transporting proteins, provide great fodder for investigating this process. In the end, THERE MUST BE A universal process that assures THAT EACH CELL OF a specific TISSUE PRODUCE THE SAME unique proteins that the tissue is specific for (e.g. mucus for specific epithelial cells, abundant actin & myosin for skeletal muscle cells, etc.). In this way, each tissue type must have the active chromosomes in virtually the same location. If there are approx 220 different tissue types, this is no "LUCK". However, in terms of the defects in cell structure, I think that because of increased radiation levels, from the sun as well as from our technology has done things to alter and affect our DNA and chromosomes. Our lifestyle, being different than that originally intended in the garden of Eden should also contribute to the defects in the way our cells work.

    ReplyDelete
  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  6. 1. It almost seems like the chromosomes get confused, ones that are reserved for later in life are "activated" in the early stages in life. This nuclear disorganization confuses the developmental cells causing the fetus/child to enter adulthood. Maybe the organization of the chromosomes is associated with specific timing.
    some people may take this disease as evidence that there cannot be a designer to life, because a designer would not allow this to happen. I happen to believe the contrary, having lost my mom to cancer 5 months ago, I can say in confidence that disease is only God giving opportunity for Himself to be glorified. It is amazing to see how He can comfort in that and provide and show His mercy. This is a perspective that is only given by the Lord, to His children.

    2.evolution believes in the transition from simple to complex, therefore that would make sense with the complexity of the chromosome organization. However, the cell couldn't function with the precise nuclear organization, as shown in the disease, and while its evolving, if it was all mixed up and incomplete, the organisms that would be evolving would be developing kinds of diseases like progeria, and then dying (at least that would make sense according to natural selection).

    ReplyDelete
  7. 1. Because the DNA is disorganized, it can’t be “found” when it is needed, leaving the body and cells in a state of disrepair. Either that, or much wrong DNA is used, causing mutations and other problems. Basically, my guess is the body deteriorates because of lack of organization. This fits in with your analogy with your garage—if everything is a mess, first of all your garage will be in a state of disarray, second your house will be in a state of disarray because you can’t find the right tools you need in your garage to fix it.
    Well since this disease is very rare, I don’t think it would be the best example of using it as an example of “bad” design, from what I know. Although, having something with “bad” design, or appearing to have bad design, fits my theology. I believe the sin brought a curse on all the earth, causing certain things to malfunction. This might be a weak argument biologically speaking, but it’s my initial response to the idea of “bad design.”

    ReplyDelete
  8. 2. Well first off, new chromosomes would have to evolve to support a larger, more complex life form. The biggest hurdle, how I see it, is how the cell would survive while the chromosomes are still moving. If any chromosomes are not in the correct area, serious diseases can occur, like shown above.

    ReplyDelete
  9. First of all, the picture you added was a nice little touch that definitely made me laugh!
    1-Progeria reminds me of ‘Benjamin Button’ but definitely a little bit of a different situation, and case. Progeria is interesting because it’s only a physical disease in the sense that their mental state isn’t affected at all, but it affects the physical development of the people by many years. People with Progeria typically don’t live to be past the age of 13. Lamin A is involved with the development of RNA and DNA. It would make sense that this illness would occur if Lamin A was inhibited from helping organize DNA and RNA because then they wouldn’t be able to finish their processes. I think that it shows that there is a creator but that life isn’t something to be treasured. Our life on earth is temporary and not something to treasure. Disease teaches us to rely on God and remind us that heaven is awaiting us.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Investigate progeria and hypothesize how nuclear organization could lead to this syndrome and other disease states. Many diseases are related to chromosome structure and function including cancer, does this support the notion of bad design?....i.e., does the fact that some aspects of cell structure are more involved in promoting disease states show that a designer of the cell or life is unlikely ?

    It could cause a major defect because of the organization problem. Progeria is said to cause aging in children which is definitely strange. here are some quick facts about this disease. "Progeria is a progressive genetic disorder that causes children to age rapidly, beginning in their first two years of life. The condition is rare; since 1886, only about 130 cases of progeria have been documented in the scientific literature.

    Children with progeria, also known as Hutchinson-Gilford progeria syndrome (HGPS), generally appear normal at birth. By 12 months, signs and symptoms, such as skin changes and hair loss, begin to appear. The average life expectancy for a child with progeria is 13, but some with the disease die younger and some live 20 years or longer.

    Heart problems or stroke is the eventual cause of death in most children with progeria. There's no cure for this condition, but ongoing research shows some promise for treatment." (Health quick facts.)

    ReplyDelete
  11. It seems to me that that since the region of the nucleus where chromosomes are is so important that the lamin protein would be one of the most important proteins for a functioning eukaryotic cell and the disorganization of the chromosomes due to a mutation in this protein would be the cause of the problem. If the chromosomes aren't all in the correct place than the activation of a certain chromosome is almost imminent. Obviously for life to exist, there must be order and the nucleus is clear evidence of that. The smallest change in the DNA effects the whole organism. I believe that diseases like this can prove intelligent design just as much, if not more, as it could disprove it. The fact that the DNA has to stay so well organized and the slightest changes can be devastating.

    2. I suppose that the addition of a second chromosome, since prokaryotes only usually have one, which served some kind of useful purpose, might make that organism dominant over others. Now only two chromosomes doesn't seem too hard, even without a nuclear envelope. So with the addition of more chromosomes, many prokaryotic organisms would die off until one prokaryotic organism entered another, which had multiple chromosomes, leading to the evolution of the nucleus. With the addition of more chromosomes, over time, the many of the organisms branching from this one would die off until the lamin protein was developed, or at least some simple ancestor of it allowing organization of the nucleus as it became stabilized. I think that many people make the mistake of forgetting that evolution was supposed to have happened over such a vast amount of time to an innumerable amount of organisms. It's not as if all this was supposed to have happened to one particular organism

    ReplyDelete
  12. 1) It appears that one of the main issues in aging is not only the preservation of the structure of the nucleus, but also the structure of the chromosomes inside. The structures on the end of chromosomes that keep them from unraveling are called telomeres. Normal chromosomes possess long telomeres, but after a cell splits, some of the telomere is lost. The more times a cell is split, the shorter the telomere becomes until it no longer holds together the chromosome, and the cell dies. This is a common theory for what causes aging. Lamin promotes telomere aggregation and telomerase, an enzyme that promotes telomere growth. In Progeria patients, the lamin has been mutated, causing the telomeres of their chromosomes to be unusually short early on in their life span. The cells can not reproduce, so they die and signs of aging in the patients are quickly manifested. (sorry for the long explanation, but this is all super interesting to me.) Lamin also keeps the chromosomes in the right place, so if the lamin is malformed, the chromosomes become difficult to find and the DNA can't be read, leading to very little or very slow cell replication. I don't see how this could be used as an argument either for or against design...only one in something like 8 million babies are diagnosed with progeria. when was the last time you did something 8 million times successively without messing up?

    2)As we all know, prokaryotes don't have a nucleus,so to start off with their are some pretty big differences between the two. in the prokayote nucleoid, the DNA is all kind of long tangles. There doesn't appear to be much organization to how they store their DNA. However, eukaryotic cells have a specific plan to the organization of their DNA. If you want a theory for how this developed, i guess a prokaryotic cell could have swallowed a virus one day that cut the DNA into more manageable sizes and deformed the DNA. The bacteria survived more easily,reproduced, and the rest is imaginary history. The thing, though, is that our DNA is way more complex than a bacteria's. Evolution has to overcome the law of entropy, energy flows to it's most stable state. organisms become more simple over time, not more complex. But this whole argument has been used before, so i digress.

    ReplyDelete
  13. 1 Progeria is a disease that causes aging to happen early and quickly. This disease causes normal aging but just earlier in young children. This is caused by a mutation on a gene that code for lamin. A deficiency in this essential nuclear structure causes premature aging and this may be caused by the nucleus and DNA being disorganized, the cell cannot create proteins as fast as the body needs them. This causes the body to slow down and sacrifice certain areas of the body to create the proteins that are vital. This would cause a premature aging as the body slows down and isn’t able to keep up with the body’s needs.
    There is no such thing as bad design. Things appear to be created bad because as time progresses, this fallen world finds areas of life to corrupt which causes diseases and sickness.
    No, but it does show that our world is fallen and we are not perfect. A designer of life is still a “highly likely” but the other facet, which is sin, which has corrupted this world is real.

    2 nuclear organization may have evolved in that as time progressed, it discovered which DNA was needed the most and it simply migrated toward the outer area of the nucleus. The cell soon realized that it needed to be organized and lamin was created which held the DNA in order. Evolution would have to overcome that things don’t just appear. The DNA creates proteins but it needs proteins to create a structure which holds it in place. However that is circular reasonin

    ReplyDelete
  14. 1. Progeria is caused by a mutation in LMNA gene that makes Lamin A protein. The unstable form of Lamin A protein created by replacing cytosine with thymine and it causes unstable nucleus. The average life span of those children that got this early aging disease is 13 years old, some can live up to early twenties or even forties. This is a genetic condition but not usually iherited. They usually die from heart attack or stroke called atherosclerosis.
    I don't think this is a support the notion of bad design since God has created the world in good condition without any kind of diseases before the fall of man. I think diseases are the result of our sin. However sometimes God uses diseases to allow us to experience his grace and his power and to fulfill his purpose as stated in Romans 8:28 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose."

    ReplyDelete
  15. It’s possible that in diseases such as Progeria, parts of chromosomes related to aging are expressed prematurely when they are not correctly placed in the nucleus as a result of the faulty protein lamin A, which is part of the nuclear envelope. Since location of the chromosome is a factor in its expression, misplaced chromosomes could be used to synthesize proteins related to the elderly when they should not be expressed until years later in the organism. The fact that one fault in the expression of the protein lamin A doesn’t make the idea of a designer faulty; rather it points to the idea of a designer. The fact that a single point mutation can cause such a harmful disease shows the effects of one minor mistake in the roughly 3 billion base pairs of human DNA. If we were the product of chance and not design, there would be countless faults and diseases related to DNA structure that could only possibly be removed from the gene pool if the fault resulted in death.

    A hurdle that the evolution of a nucleus from a prokaryote would have to overcome is the fact that proteins involved in the nuclear envelope (which help determine the location of chromosomes) are created beginning with the transcription of DNA. If DNA codes for the proteins that help DNA be coded for, they would both have to be present and fully functional at the same time, which contrasts the evolutionary concept of gradual improvement over millions of years.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Wikipedia gives a pretty clear explanation of Progeria: It is "a childhood disorder caused by a point mutation in position 1824 of the LMNA gene, replacing cytosine with thymine, creating an unstable form of the protein Lamin A."

    So if Lamin tethers the chromosomes in place, an unstable form of Lamin would be ineffective at holding the chromosomes in place. If the chromosomes are not held in their correct positions, proteins will either not be made correctly or will not be made at all. Incorrectly made proteins or missing proteins could lead to a variety of diseases.

    The fact that some aspects of cell structure are more involved in promoting disease states doesn't show that a designer of life is unlikely. Genetic mutations are very involved in a lot of diseases. When sin entered the world, it twisted God's good creation. The nucleus holds all the data for the cell (genes) and so it would be a natural area that sin would effect.

    The difference between prokaryotes and eukaryotes is that prokaryotes have a nucleoid which is a general region of DNA whereas eukaryotes have a nuclear membrane and specific locations for certain parts of DNA. In order to get from a prokaryote to a eukaryote, one must evolve the nuclear membrane and the proteins necessary to hold the chromosomes in their correct positions. The challenge for evolution is that chromosome location is vital to making the right proteins. So, one would need the proteins to hold the chromosomes in the right place, but at the same time, the proteins couldn’t be made unless the chromosomes were in their correct places. This is why the linear approach of evolving from a prokaryote to a eukaryote has some difficulties. A designer is much more likely because all the necessary components and the correct location for those components can be created in the beginning.

    ReplyDelete
  17. 1)
    “In 2003, NHGRI researchers, together with colleagues at the Progeria Research Foundation, the New York State Institute for Basic Research in Developmental Disabilities, and the University of Michigan, discovered that Hutchinson-Gilford progeria is caused by a tiny, point mutation in a single gene, known as lamin A (LMNA). Parents and siblings of children with progeria are virtually never affected by the disease. In accordance with this clinical observation, the genetic mutation appears in nearly all instances to occur in the sperm prior to conception. It is remarkable that nearly all cases are found to arise from the substitution of just one base pair among the approximately 25,000 DNA base pairs that make up the LMNA gene.

    The LMNA gene codes for two proteins, lamin A and lamin C, that are known to play a key role in stabilizing the inner membrane of the cell's nucleus. In laboratory tests involving cells taken from progeria patients, researchers have found that the mutation responsible for Hutchinson-Gilford progeria causes the LMNA gene to produce an abnormal form of the lamin A protein. That abnormal protein appears to destabilize the cell's nuclear membrane in a way that may be particularly harmful to tissues routinely subjected to intense physical force, such as the cardiovascular and musculoskeletal systems.”

    ReplyDelete
  18. continuing the first post...

    Based on this information from genome.gov, it seems that the reason that progeria patients usually die of heart failure is because, as the article said, the nucleus of cells in muscles and the heart cannot stand up to the pressures and strain of movement and constant pumping. If the nucleus is eventually destroyed, then the cell most certainly cannot duplicate and a loss of muscle and heart tissue will result. This explains the heart failure. It also explains the appearance of early aging. If other cells in other organs, like the skin, are also compromised then they too will fail to produce more cells and eventually a decrease of cells and weakening of the organ will be evident. This process in other organs will be slower than the heart failure, since they are not under the same stress as the heart. This is the case with any disease that affects nuclear organization. If the nuclei of the cells in an organ are prematurely destroyed, then the organ will eventually be compromised.

    The fact that some structures in cells promote disease is not an argument against design, or at least not against the Designer that we know from Scripture. We know as believers that the negative affects of mutations are a result of sin. Things wear out and break; moth and rust destroy; organisms degenerate genetically. Things that were once perfect, made by the perfect Creator, are now under the curse. I would say that the fact that some aspects of cell structure promote disease is an argument against evolution. Evolution relies on mutations to make things change and become better. However, the mutation that causes progeria, just like nearly every other mutation that isn’t neutral, is harmful to the organism that it affects. In essence, for every organism that develops a “beneficial” mutation, there are countless organisms being damaged from mutations in their genes. Do the math. Evolution must work against the mutation gradient, if you will.

    ReplyDelete
  19. 2)
    I can agree a bit with Sarah’s idea that a virus could have caused a change in the DNA of a prokaryote and possibly altered the genes that encode for the membrane proteins that hold the centrosomes in their proper place. However, a hurdle to overcome would be the fact that as prokaryotes became eukaryotes then cytokinesis would be dependent on centrosomes. If the proteins that held the centrosomes in the proper place were not fully developed, and the centrosomes themselves were not fully developed (from what, because as best as I can tell, prokaryotes do not have centrosomes...), then cytokinesis would fail.

    ReplyDelete
  20. 1.) Progeria is caused by a defect in the gene that codes for lamin which organzies the geneticmaterial housed in the cell nucleus. Many symptoms of aging in people that do not have progeria are cuased by slower cell turnover rates. This makes sense with progeria cases too- if the DNA is not properly organized, cell reproduction is much slower which can lead to the stiffening tissues, stunted growth, hair loss and over-all deterioration of the body. I liked how Luke compared it to the garage. I think that this diease doesn't support "bad design" as much as it hurts it. If anything it emphasizes how perfectly placed everything needs to be in order for a cell to survive. Organization requires order and the world is consantly approaching chaos, not order therfor thing can't go from less order to more order unless someone deliberately puts it that way

    2.) Prokaryotes would have to develop genes for proteins and structures to perform the necessary functions for managing genetic material into chromosomes. This would mean that they would somehow have had to gain genetic material that doesn't exist. According to natural selection genetic material is only lost, not gained therefor evolution just contradicted itself.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Wow, I do not think I have ever heard of this disease, so it is very interesting, yet saddening to see pictures of people with this disease.

    1. It seems that the cell is disorganized, so the organelles, genes, and maybe even receptors are in the wrong to do their job. I am imagining it be something like molecules that have to be in the right orientation to bond with other molecules, like hydrogen with oxygen to form water. If the cell is disorganized, it probably cannot find the ribosomes, or "machines" needed to make the right genes, and thus a mutation forms. Just a thought. I do not think this is necessarily bad design. I read a statistic that said there have only been about 1400 cases of progeria over the last few hundred years. Considering how many people have lived on this earth in this time, and how many people have had this disease, I would say it is very rare, and does not have much to do with the creator. If anything, I would say that there is a creator involved here because He kept the rest of the millions of people from getting progeria.

    http://courses.cit.cornell.edu/psych527_nbb420-720/student2005/ljh34/faq.htm

    2. I like Jordan's hypothesis, and especially when she said that the evolutionists would have to account for gaining genetic material. There cannot be anything new without something creating it, like God.

    ReplyDelete
  22. 1. "HGPS is caused by a mutation in the gene called LMNA (pronounced, lamin – a). The LMNA gene produces the Lamin A protein, which is the structural scaffolding that holds the nucleus of a cell together. Researchers now believe that the defective Lamin A protein makes the nucleus unstable. That cellular instability appears to lead to the process of premature aging in Progeria. Progeria signs include growth failure, loss of body fat and hair, aged-looking skin, stiffness of joints, hip dislocation, generalized atherosclerosis, cardiovascular (heart) disease and stroke."

    Source http://www.progeriaresearch.org/progeria_101.html

    Many diseases are related to chromosome structure and function including cancer, this does not support the notion of bad design. The reason is diseases are caused by the fall of man, it is when humans' sins have destroyed the perfect creation of God.

    ReplyDelete
  23. 1. "Researchers have discovered a single gene mutation responsible for Hutchinson-Gilford progeria syndrome. The gene is known as lamin A (LMNA), which makes a protein necessary to holding the center (nucleus) of a cell together. Researchers believe the genetic mutation renders cells unstable, which appears to lead to progeria's characteristic aging process." Progeria is not a disease that is inherited through family line, but "rather, the gene change is a chance occurrence that researchers believe affects a single sperm or egg just before conception. Neither parent is a carrier, so the mutations in the children's genes are new". Progeria is caused by a point mutation in lamin A which does not show that there is faulty design, but just shows that we live in a fallen world where mutations do happen and even different point mutations are a cause of many diseases. "The point mutation in Lamin A results in activation of a cryptic splice site within exon 11, resulting in production of a protein product that deletes 50 amino acids near the carboxy terminus. Immunofluorescence of HGPS fibroblasts with antibodies directed against lamin A revealed that many cells show visible abnormalities of the nuclear membrane. The discovery of the molecular basis of this disease may shed light on the general phenomenon of human aging."

    2. I think that as these two processes would have been evolving over millions of years and there would have been no way to organize it all without everything that is now in a eukaryote cell being there from the beginning. The prokaryote wouldn't have had millions of years to evolve these processes and organize themselves because a eukaryotic cell cannot function without nuclear organization and without certain chemicals. This means that the eukaryote cell is irreducibly complex.

    ReplyDelete
  24. 1. Progeria is caused by a mutation on the gene that encodes for protein lamin A. Lamin A is called an intermediate filament protein, it provides stability and strength for the cells. It is primarily located in the nuclear lamina, which is attached to the inner membrane of the nuclear envelope. Researchers believe that the nuclear envelope plays a key role in regulating the activity of certain genes, so if the nuclear envelope is defective the genes it regulates will be defective as well. According to the Progeria Research Foundation “the defective Lamin A protein makes the nucleus unstable. That cellular instability appears to lead to the process of premature aging.” If the chromosomes of these children are misplaced then the needed proteins are not being synthesized. One of the symptoms is baldness, these children are not able to make the proteins that aid in hair growth. All of their symptoms seem to point to deficiencies in proteins, which makes sense because of the instability of the nucleus. If the chromosomes are not in the correct spot, then the DNA cannot be transcript properly and needed proteins are not synthesized.
    And no, the fact that one defect in cell structure can cause many diseases does not point to the notion of bad design, it points to sin is what it does. It also points to a creator. Think of it, if we were evolved we would not be so complicated as one small gene could change our entire life. Every single gene is precisely organized in our body, there is no way we could evolve and end up like that. We had to be created by an intelligent God with a plan.

    2. Prokaryotic DNA is not formed into chromosomes like eukaryotic cells are. Histones are proteins found in eukaryotic cells. They package and order the DNA into nucleuosomes which are the chief protein component of chromatin. DNA then winds around chromatin.An evolutionist could argue that the histones evolved which then allowed for the “packaging” of DNA into chromosomes. A big hurdle evolution would have to overcome is how would something so complex as a histone form, and from what? There is nothing in a prokaryotic cell even close to histones that it could form from. And then to go from seemingly unorganized DNA in prokaryotes to everything being organized in eukaryotes, there is just too much left to chance for this ever to occur.

    ReplyDelete
  25. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  26. It seems that there are so many complication and diseases that occur in the chromosomes. if the chromosomes are not in the right place or if some component inside of the nucleus is missing as we found in one such as the case of the progeria disease. as we have seen in life, if life is to exist there must be order in the cell and this we see is what the nucleus provides.
    2 as a well known fact that prokaryotes don't have a nucleus which then would not give them that desired order in the cells right ! well not quite this nucleus-less prokaryote seem to still live and functing fine right? so why is it not dead with out the nucleus? well because this long coded chain called DNA came along and said hey we need to straighten up in this cell now don't we cell and so the DNA gave the cell that missing organization that was missing and tada that all there is to it.

    ReplyDelete
  27. well of course there is more but that my friends is for another time.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Progeria is caused by a mutation in the lamin-a gene. This gene is what holds the nucleus of a cell together. It has been found that the defective lamin-a protein makes the nucleus unstable which leads to the process of premature aging.
    Progeria is observed to be the result of a dominant mutation, where the gene has one normal copy and one mutant copy. But, the mutation is found to be sporadic at the time of conception.
    It could be an error in the localization of the chromosome that would cause this disease. This error could cause the instability of the nucleus, and possibly confuse cells that drive developmental functions.
    This doesn't give support to bad design. If anything it should highlight the complexity of our bodies. One single 'mess-up' can cause such a severe disease. If it were up to bad design, there would be more than just one error. This complexity shows how everything must be perfectly created and placed in its proper position for it to work.

    ReplyDelete
  29. 2. I think the hardest part of evolution would defiantly be the evolution of a defined nuclear membrane containing the DNA. Since making a lipid bi-layer is quite difficult imagine having to make one inside the other and then changing the concentrations so the cytoplasm is completely on the outside while the DNA is neatly packed in the nucleus. Further more that membrane has to be permeable only to nucleic acids so that the mRNA and other RNAs can exit and enter without rupturing or contaminating the DNA

    ReplyDelete
  30. Progeria is caused by a point mutation of the LMNA gene when cytosine is replaced with thymine. This creates a different form of the Lamin A protein that cannot be processed or used and therefore accumulates in the nucleus of the cell causing premature aging. Nuclear organization could lead to this disease by mixing up a few DNA strands and causing the wrong base pairs to be paired up. In my opinion this does not indicate bad design but a fallen people. We are all subject to the fall and as such we do not have the perfection that human beings once had. This applies not only to our minds and souls but our bodies as well. They malfunction because of the fall, not bad design. Nuclear organization and chromosome location would have had to go through massive hoops in order to function properly in an evolutionary model. Since everything must work together perfectly to create a working cell there is no room for “trial and error” over millions of years and therefore the good old irreducible complexity once again sets fire to evolutionary thoughts on the origin of life.

    ReplyDelete
  31. 1. If a nucleus isn’t properly organized, defects in gene expression and DNA accessibility could occur. This could relate to the changes that elderly people have in gene expression compared to their younger years. This could relate to diseases because defective organization could result in mis-transcribed proteins. The fact that nuclei slowly become disorganized is just an example of the 1st Law of Thermodynamics. All things become disorganized. This shows that they must have been organized in the first place. This is proof of a designer. In fact, before the fall, our cell’s nuclei may not have had this defect. This shows evidence for a creator. The creator.

    ReplyDelete
  32. 2. By definition, evolution must be irreducibly complex. Nuclear organization and chromosome location is just another example in nature that points to the creator, not evolution. Even if all of the right chromosomes were in the nucleus, what is the chance that all of them would be arranged in the right position? What would the consequences be if they were disorganized? They would be diseased and prone to die. Even the small details of life are too complex to evolve.

    ReplyDelete
  33. With the improper placement of specific genes, one can develop proteins that will not properly function in the cells. LMNA in progeria patients is not in the correct spot so Lamin A does not function properly and too much of it is stored in the cell. Erik made a great point, I think that this just proves that we're sinners. XD God created man and woman in His image...with perfect bodies until we decided to sin. Does disease eliminate the chances of a designer? No, it just proves that we are fallen and separated from God's presence (for now). :)

    -Sarah Gonzales

    ReplyDelete
  34. I wouldn't call the chomosome thing a "bad design"..because everything God creates is good...I would of course say that God creates everything for a reason. I used to call my ankle something that was "bad" but now I know that I can't possibly say that. God creates everything for His purpose..everything is designed to give Him glory. And I wouldn't say that some things that promote cell disease are a sign of there being no life designer..if anything, I would think there was one. how could nothing just create such a complicated system of chomosomes? How could the nucleus and the chromosomes just evolve perfectly into place almost 99 percent of the time? Just doesn't make sense. I love everyone's comments! I don't really have anything else to add to it. :)

    ReplyDelete
  35. 1. Progeria is where symptoms of aging are shown at an early age. They are also known as “prematurely old.” They have a genetic mutation that is usually encoded on the protein lamin A, but it is not inherited. They resemble normal human aging but at a very young age. Nuclear Organization can lead to this syndrome and other disease states because if lamin was inhibited then the finishing processes of DNA and RNA would not be able to finish. Affecting the DNA affects the whole organism especially in a gene mutation. DNA needs to be organized to help develop the organism. If there is a bad design in the DNA then there is a “bad design” in the organism. Life as God made it is to be complex. He made each individual in their own way and design. God has definitely shown His existence through life and creation so I believe that there is only one designer of a cell and that is God.
    2. Well since prokaryotes do not have a nucleus, and the only problem would be getting the chromosomes to get into their specific areas. If the prokaryotes were to evolve they would need something to help them organize the growing chromosomes. Without doing this then the cell would probably die.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Progeria, such as most diseases like it, is a disease that is quite rare. It's the dysfunction of genetic code wherein the symptoms of the disease are signs of aspects of aging that show very early on in the life of the patient. The word progeria is in fact a compound of two Greek words that mean "before" and "old age" and together are literally translated as "prematurely old." Also, not only do the patients exhibit signs of old age, they also tend to live very short lives, ranging from teenage years up to their mid-twenties.

    The cause lies in a dysfunction in the position of an LMNA gene. It replaces cytosine with thymine. This cannot be processed as easily as cytosine and therefore accumulates in the nucleus of the cell. This is a protein called Lamin A.

    ReplyDelete
  37. 1.Progeria is a disease which causes rapid aging among children. The scrambled DNA could result in this by causing certain proteins not to be made, as they are unable to reach the DNA which may code for the proteins. With a lack of proteins, the effects of age would appear to occur, as the proteins do not take care of the cell as they would in a normal person. I believe this is evidence for a creator, as it shows that the DNA cannot be randomly arranged, otherwise it would not do the function it was meant to do. This means that no cells could survive without these proteins, and life would have ceased to exist if it had happened by chance.
    2.There is little evidence for evolution, as the prokaryotes which function quite adequately with DNA rings would have had to create greater DNA structure. This seems unlikely, as then all prokaryotic cells would have eventually developed to have greater nuclear structure.

    ReplyDelete
  38. 1. The Progeria Research Foundation says this about Lamin A:
    “Hutchinson-Gilford Progeria Syndrome ("Progeria", or "HGPS") is caused by a mutation in the gene called LMNA (pronounced, lamin - a). The LMNA gene produces the Lamin A protein, which is the structural scaffolding that holds the nucleus of a cell together. Researchers now believe that the defective Lamin A protein makes the nucleus unstable. That cellular instability appears to lead to the process of premature aging in Progeria.”

    http://www.progeriaresearch.org/about_progeria.html

    So, if Lamin A keeps the chromosomes tethered in the right spot, and stable, then a defect in Lamin A would only cause disorder and chaos. Going back to your power cord analogy, it’d be like having a garage packed full of tightly wound cords, but they were all color coded and ordered according to something specific. If for some reason there was a defect in the power cords and they were all the same color, then the order would be lost and function would be lost or defective…or something along those lines, the point is that if there’s a defect in the thing keeping everything running smoothly, of course there will be complications and disease. I don’t think that is a fair reason to say it’s a bad design. With the fall came sin and everything became defective. The design works perfectly well as long as there is no mutation in the gene, right? So the design isn’t to blame, the sin that cause change in the perfect design is at fault.

    2. I think evolution would have a hard time overcoming the organization aspect. Hypothetically, if the nucleus evolved over time, and more and more genetic information was added it would become a confused mess without the specific enzymes (like Lamin A) keeping it organized. That enzyme would have to be there from the start keeping the DNA in order and the chromosomes in its place or it would cause diseases like Progeria and cancer. If evolution occurred, how did that enzyme get there and how was the genetic material functioning properly without it?

    ReplyDelete
  39. 1 Progeria is a mutation in Lamin which makes proteins that end up holding the cell together. This may result from nuclear unorganization but it does not support the notion of bad design. The reason I think this is because if there is any mution in any design most of the time it will result in some negative and possibly harmful way.
    2 The organization could evolve and become more complicated as the nucleus is trying to adapt to certain changes. Evolution would have to overcome the fact that the whole nucleus and chromosome organization is so complex and if anything this should show that there is so much design.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Bethany, while your comment is optimistic, I'm going to point out a critical error in what you said. Your comment fails to take into consideration the fall. Yes, when God created the earth it was "very good." But then sin entered the world causing death, decay, destruction, and degeneration. Creation is now inherently flawed. The fact is, your ankle could be "bad." Diseases relating to chromosomal organization are "bad." Now, this doesn't mean a Creator doesn't exist--it just means His creation has been scarred by sin.

    ReplyDelete
  41. From my peripheral understanding, Progeria is the entanglement of matrix fibers resulting in a difference in the chromosome pattern either making it more or less accessible when needed. I don’t believe its bad design necessarily, I just think its one of the many repercussions from the fall. If this was a “bad design”, we could say that cancer, down syndrome, or cystic fibrosis all fall under that category. They are all microscopic mutations that just prove how perfect Gods design is and that there must be some sort of design and we can see His grace.
    Evolutionists believe that things evolve from a simple form to a more complex form so it would make sense that an unorganized nucleus would evolve to be more organized over the span of time figuring out new ways to successfully organize a cell for perfect function. In a prokaryotic cell there is only one chromosome that is said to be naked DNA and circular, where in a eukaryotic cell there are many more chromosomes that contain histones. Right there would already be a large hurdle alone to explain, how did histones evolve, where did they come from. Even, a prokaryotic cell only containing one chromosome would not specifically need organization of the location of the chromosome because there is only one.

    ReplyDelete
  42. 1) Progeria is caused by a mutation in the Laminin gene which causes laminin to not be produced as efficiently. Laminin is needed for the scaffolding of the nucleus. One side effect of the unstable nucleus is the disease progeria. This just shows how disorganization or unstability in the
    nucleus or the DNA can cause problems in expression of genes or the synthesis of proteins. I do not believe that this points to faulty design. This is just another aspect of the fallen world, mutations can happen and cause complications and diseases due to the imperfections in the world.

    2) Evolutionists cling to the idea that eukaryotes evolved from prokaryotes and gained a nucleus through endosymbiosis. After absorbing another cell and impossibly turning it into a nucleus.
    After that, the new nucleus would have to absorb the host cell's DNA and be taught how to organize the mess of DNA that wasn't as organized in the prokaryotic cell. So many hurdles must be overcome in this idea.

    ReplyDelete
  43. 2. I think that this would be a huge hurdle for evolution to go over. This level of organization does not seem to indicate anywhere the small successive mutations that evolution proclaims. The organization is clearly not random and if only small mutations can have deadly consequences it seems to me that those first cells would have to reproduce a lot faster than the ridicule rates that they would I'd at if even a few chromosomes where out o place.

    ReplyDelete